The Examiner
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Those who follow the film industry will remember the much publicized battle between the Directors Guild of America (DGA) and purveyors of self-edited Hollywood films, most notably CleanFlicks, a Utah-based company.Through a series of perceived intellectual property rights loopholes, these companies edited content they deemed offensive from R and PG-13 rated films, and then sold or rented them to consumers. The DGA took offense, launched a lawsuit, and in 2006 the US District Court ordered the fledgling industry shut down.
However, dozens of sanitized-movie retailers defied the judgment and remained open well into 2007 and beyond, supported by their largely Mormon customer base, who saw the Hollywood filmmakers behind the suit as self-important and morally bankrupt.
During the time these stores were operating illegally, documentary filmmakers Andrew James and Joshua Ligairi had unprecedented access to dozens of renegade stores and their owners, including the infamous Daniel Thompson, who was arrested for statutory rape after supposedly paying underage girls for sexual favors in his edited movie store (at least he had a screenwriters sense of irony). James and Ligairi have now finished their film, and it has been accepted into the Toronto International Film Festival, one of the world’s most prestigious film venues.
The film is called CleanFlix and follows the publicly open but privately conflicted Daniel Thompson through the legal and moral battles he would face, while offering a revealing look behind the scenes of the sanitized movie industry and the Mormon culture that spawned it.
I sat down with Joshua Ligairi and Andrew James to discuss their film, their careers, and documentary filmmaking in general.
Examiner: How did you get into documentary film making?
Joshua Ligairi: I had been interested in film for a long time, taken some film classes, and interned on some sets when I started my first documentary. The subject just fell into my lap. It was largely a case of being in the right place at the right time, but I was also ready to capitalize on that opportunity. I had a camera, I had some training, and I realized very quickly that instead of getting people coffee or driving actors around (which is the kind of stuff you start out doing on a film set), I could be making my own movie.
Andrew James: My first documentary project was Cleanflix. Before that, I had been shooting short films. A friend suggested that I make a documentary about CleanFlicks and it seemed like a great idea. So I jumped in head first, and figured it out along the way. It just so happened that this friend knew Josh as well and paired us together for the project. When we started shooting Cleanflix, I was busy with another film, Una Vida Mejor. That film is now complete and has since played festivals and won an award.
Examiner: And what were your roles on the film?
Joshua: Not sure if you mean this film or that first documentary film.
That first one was called This Divided State (you can find the DVD online) and my credit was "Key Videographer." Basically, I was there everyday of production with a camera in hand, directing, producing, and shooting all of my own footage, paying for tapes and other materials out of pocket, that kind of thing. I was deep in the trenches and I shot about a quarter of what became the final film.
On the Cleanflix film, I'm the co-director with Andrew James. We also share producing, cinematography, editing, and writing responsibilities, which basically means that we argue a lot.
Examiner: What first attracted you to this subject matter?
Joshua: I had been interested in the cleaned-up movie industry for a long time. It was just one of those cultural phenomena that brought up so many interesting questions about ethics, morality, and film as art or commodity. And then, of course, there were the religious underpinnings which made the topic really personally appealing to me.
I had actually been debating the idea of doing this film for several months when a friend (Xavier Gutirrez, who is now a co-producer on Cleanflix) approached me about doing it together. I struggled with answering him because I wasn't sure how interesting the topic would be to people outside of Utah. Then, a few days later I was in Salt Lake watching This Film Is Not Yet Rated at the Broadway, and I thought to myself, "We could make a Cleanflicks documentary easily as good as this one." No offense to the makers of that film whatsoever. I love it and Eddie Schmidt (the producer of This Film Is Not Yet Rated) has been a big help with Cleanflix. I just realized in that moment that we had a topic equally as charged and complex. I drove straight back to Provo and told my friend that I was in. By the way, for the record, it turns out that the topic of Cleanflix is actually far more interesting to people outside of Utah than inside the state.
Andrew: To be honest, I just really hated edited movies and thought it would be fun. I never imagined this project becoming what it is now. I think back then, I envisioned a short film about the lawsuit or something. Now my view on the matter is much more nuanced, having gone on this journey.
Examiner: You’ve been involved with this film for a really long time now. Has it been a fun journey?
Joshua: For the most part, this film was not fun to make. We shot for two years and edited for another year on an almost non-existent budget. That said, we rarely had a day where we wrapped and weren't very pleased with the days work. We were really fortunate to get some great material.
The most interesting thing to me is that we set out to make a kind of historical document, like, "This is what Cleanflicks was." They had just lost the court case with the DGA and we were going to film the aftermath. On our first day of production, however, we realized that many of these guys were staying in operation, defying the court judgment. CleanFlicks the corporation was shutting down, but there were all of these former dealers and competitors that decided they were going to take their chances and stay open. The movie changed on day one. The story became, "How did these guys that were ostensibly breaking the law feel justified in taking a moral stance? And how long could they get away with it?"
Andrew: Well, like Josh said, the film took 3 years to make. We met lots of interesting people along the way and new surprises popped up every day. As mentioned earlier, when we first started this, the lawsuit with the DGA had just happened and there were quite a few stores that were defying the judgement. Because of this, people were scared to talk to us. As such, it took us a long time to get all the information that we needed. There are lots of facts in the film that seem very matter-of-fact, but in actuality were big mysteries to us for years.
Examiner: What does getting into a prestigious festival like Toronto mean to an indie filmmaker like yourself?
Joshua: It means a lot.
Practically, it means that that we have a good chance of selling the film which, in this economy, I wouldn't complain about.
Emotionally, it is also very gratifying. You work so hard on something for so long and you live in this bubble. It feels really good to finally show your work to someone in the industry like Thom Powers (the TIFF Documentary Programmer) who has so much experience and sees so many films. For a guy like that to show such interest and support for our little movie when he is usually dealing with projects from the likes of Werner Herzog and Michael Moore, well, it is very humbling.
It also brings up this question of validation. On one level you feel kind of validated, but you also kind of resist that. At least I do. If someone didn't like our film before we got into Toronto, I don't want them to like it now. The film industry is funny that way. Our film would be just as good or just as bad whether we got into Toronto or not. I am not a different filmmaker now. I don't have any more or less talent. But in the industry everything changes. I tend to want to resist that.
Ultimately, though, I'm just pleased to be playing alongside such amazing films as the other documentaries in the Real to Reel category. There is some wonderful work being showcased in Toronto this year. I can't wait to be a part of it. I'm also looking forward to my first visit to Tim Hortons. That's a joke.
Andrew: Getting into Toronto means everything. We have sacrificed all kinds of time, energy, and money to make this film. Playing Toronto makes it all worth it. You feel validated and you feel relieved, knowing that all your hard work has been appreciated and recognized.
Examiner: What else are you working on?
Joshua: I'm shopping two fictional feature film scripts around; one that I want to sell and another that I want to direct. I'm also beginning production on my next documentary, with the working title Gay and Mormon.
Andrew: I'm working on several projects, including a documentary about a Peruvian drug smuggler who for years, smuggled cocaine into the US disguised as a Mormon missionary. Its a great story and its true. This project is in its early stages, but hopefully any success we have with Cleanflix, will help me get it off the ground.
Examiner: Any tips for aspiring documentary filmmakers?
Joshua: My main tip is: Do not begin a documentary unless you are extremely interested in the subject. I'm the kind of guy that gets an idea for a documentary every time I listen to This American Life. You can't think that way. If you are serious about making a film, and actually follow through, you are going to be living with this topic for the rest of your life. Never mind the year you spend shooting it and the hundreds of hours you spend editing it. Next there are festivals, press, and this film becomes your calling card. People only know you from your previous work. Think long and hard before choosing a topic and make sure you are passionate about whatever it is. Otherwise, you could find yourself pontificating about something like edited movies at every opportunity and really start to annoy your friends.
Andrew: You need to know how to tell a good story. Read a lot and study. I'm still doing this and I know Josh is as well.
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